Re: G. I. Gurdjieff, a man ahead of his time

Reblogged here for you to read. I’m Dr. Jone Dae. I have observed and conversed with, persons who claim to be in the Fourth Way, or in the Gurdjieff Work, in websites and forums which claim to be about those same things. I have used the facebook account of my partner, Mr. Jae Kamel, to dialog with those who claim the be in the Fourth Way. And, neither of us have found yet, a person who is online, who is both a scientist and a seeker after truth, in the sense that Gurdjieff meant it, assuming that the phrase was his.

So, I have reblogged this post about Gurdjieff and Tesla from a science blog, looking now for either: if you are a scientist, or if you are in the Gurdjieff Work, then read the blog and reply here. You no longer need to be both to blog here.

 

 

Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:19 pm
Hello there.
I’m new to this forum and this thread, and I want to introduce a topic… but I know that, most people here subscribe to the “instrumental” view of science, that is, “if it can’t be measured, it isn’t science”, where the measurements are made with instruments and technology. On the other hand, looking over all the blogs on thunderblogs, “the future of science” seems to be the best forum for this topic that I want to introduce for discussion, and, “What Is Science?” would seem to be the right thread, since the studies and experiments described might call that into question.
The connecting link, I think, is Nikola Tesla. There will be very view, who understand and advocate the EU view of universe, who are not also familiar with Tesla, his life, experiments, theories, and results.
The topic I want to introduce, comes from some reported experiments, that were reported by a man that many considered to be a mystic; and yet, in his life he was a business man, and a very successful one at that, a teacher of dance, with exhibitions at some of the great venues of the time in the U.S. and Europe, including Carnegie Hall, and, a medical hypnotist besides. This man was, of course, Mr. G. I. Gurdjieff, who was considered Russian, but whose parentage was Greek and Armenian.
Now, many people know nothing of this man, and others will have a “snapshot logic” view of him, you know, something uncomplimentary and dismissive. This is a result of the fact that they know nothing of him.
I have been seeking on this forum, to find out if there are any scientists or engineers who also have studied the writings of Gurdjieff, notably Beelzebub’s Tales To His Grandson, his great work, written as a science fiction novel, of the visits of an alien to earth, in his spaceship, or flying saucer.
In there, he describes something called, the Omnipresent Okidanokh; and, also, he describes some experiments that took place, by a fictional scientist named Gornahoor Harharkh, and witnessed and participated in by the book’s protagonist, Beelzebub.
In those experiments, he seems to be describing, using technology available in the early 20th century or late 19th century, the behavior of what we would call electromagnetism, when the parts of it are isolated in such a way as to allow them to be observed separately; and yes, measured: they used devices such as would have been available during those years to measure, voltage, current flow, light intensity, etc. Interestingly, he also seems to be implying that what we call gravity, is actually one of the electromagnetic effects or forces, and this is a view that you will find nowhere else today except among advocates of the Electric/Plasma Universe model.
The catch to all this, of course, is that it appears that Mr. Gurdjieff did indeed know Mr. Tesla, and that the experiments he described, are just fictional, sci-fi versions of work he did with Mr. Tesla. Of course, both men were geniuses, but this is not the only fact that suggests that they met. For example, their lifespans overlap almost exactly; they came from the same part of the world, the Balkans for Tesla and the Transcaucasian area for Gurdjieff, and lived there during the same times, for the most part; and finally, they were also both in America during similar years, as well, although Tesla came years before Gurdjieff came here.
Now, I have examined Gurdjieff’s life and travels closely, to see if there is any, what we would call, evidence that he traveled to where Tesla was known to have been living, in the Balkans or in Europe, and, he did indeed make some trips to that area, sometimes for long periods of time, and did not discuss what he did with this friends or pupils at the time, as recorded by them in their many writings.
So I have this ironic situation: though I have known many men or women in person, IRL, who were scientists and so on, and who were also in, what is called, The Gurdjieff Work, I have found only very few such people online. So, that’s why I’m asking folks here if they want to consider this question. That is, Gurdjieff was implying that electricity, magnetism, and light were different aspects of the same “substance”, or phenomenon; and that these participated in the existence of everything that exists, from the smallest scale to the largest, and, that something like plasma permeated the universe: this is what he meant by Omnipresent Okidanokh. So, I am looking for people who want to investigate his science in detail with me, since it seems that his results were compatible with the
EU model.
A word about the neologisms: these are a sign of high intelligence, not of metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, as people at the city level would think. Gurdjieff spoke many languages, some fluently, including Russian, Turkish, Armenian, Persian, Greek, certain dialects spoken only in the Caucasian or Himalayan mountains, and a few words as well of Italian, French, and eventually English, enough to understand and be understood. Those are frankly some difficult languages to learn, and he was fluent in the first five of them. Bennett, who was the English Ambassador to Turkey when Gurdjieff was there, said that he spoke Turkish “like a Prince”. So, in other words, the neologisms in his writings are compounded from roots from those languages, and done so deliberately. FYI.
So, the question is, who would like to examine with me the science that he shared? And I should add, before you reply, that he also presented in that novel, a history of the earth and solar system, that was very similar to Velikovsky’s, except that he wrote his about 30 years before Velikovsky published his first book, predating him. And Velikovsky was the inspiration for the work of David Talbott, who is the Founder of Thunderbolts.
Dr. Jone Dae.

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Re: Science, What is Science?

Postby jone dae » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:28 pm
Hello again,
For those of you who didn’t immediately laugh, but who might be interested in this science, here is a related blog that I started on WordPress on this subject. If any of you would prefer, you may reply there instead of here.
http://jonedae.wordpress.com/2012/11/10/plasmaelectric-universe-and-the-okidanokh/

Also, since it is not very long, here is the text of it so far:
In this blog, we are investigating, the relationships between the phenomena and events described by G. I. Gurdjieff in his books and teachings, and those described by our modern-day sciences. The focus of this discussion, is on the relationships between The Omnipresent Okidanokh, and the behaviors, etc., of Plasma and Electromagnetism; and between the cosmology and cosmogony Gurdjieff described, and that of the Electric/Plasma Model. We prefer that all posts to this blog pertain directly to these subjects only; and no pests, please.

So, here are some links to blogs or websites for you to read to get started with this. First, I recommend reading Will Mesa’s blog on this site, http://willmesa.wordpress.com/2012/10/1 … ubs-tales/ . Then, you should read this webpage: http://electromagneticfrontier.blogspot … 7731063083 ; and finally, read http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/about/syn/ , and those should be enough to get the conversation started.

Dr. Jone Dae

Someone has requested more introductory material, via e-mail to me. Here, then, are more sites for you to read that present these subjects and their issues:

http://web.archive.org/web/201107160554 … uction.htm

http://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/ }scroll down for summary of “planetary influences”. These illustrations are links to NOAA and SWPC sites, etc.

http://www.electricuniverse.info/Introduction }”The Electric Universe theory highlights the importance of electricity throughout the Universe. It is based on the recognition of existing natural electrical phenomena (eg. lightning, St Elmo’s Fire), and the known properties of plasmas (ionized “gases”) which make up 99.999% of the visible universe, and react strongly to electromagnetic fields. Much of the material considered by the Electric Universe is peer-reviewed, but not all (see Speculative Theories, below).”

http://plasmauniverse.info/01.guided_tour.html }a guided tour of plasma in the universe. (99% of the observable universe is plasma.)

http://www.electric-cosmos.org/summary.htm }summary from the new electric-cosmos site. It is very similar to the archived site’s page.

http://www.jamesphogan.com/bb/CPG.html }excellent summary of all the new astrophysics and physics of crater, etc., formation, and plasma physics. No color jpegs but accurate summations.

Let me know of any questions, comments, suggestions, etc. that you have.

JD

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Re: G. I. Gurdjieff, a man ahead of his time

Postby 303vegas » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:15 am
Hi there! I’m not sure if I can be of any help regarding this topic – I’m not what you would call a ‘good researcher,’ however, I think that what you say is very interesting and I look forward to hearing more. I’m always open to new thinking and also I’m constantly happily surprised when old ideas and personalities re-emerge with new-found relevance. I’ve never read anything by Gurdjieff but now my curiosity has been piqued so I’ll endeavour to give him a try!

Thanx.

g
love from lancashire!

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Re: G. I. Gurdjieff, a man ahead of his time

Postby D_Archer » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:51 am
http://www.integralbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GURDJIEFF-G.I.-Beelzebubs-Tales-to-His-Grandson.pdf

Regargds,
Daniel

ps. reading this will take some time…
– Shoot Forth Thunder –

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Re: G. I. Gurdjieff, a man ahead of his time

Postby jone dae » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:56 pm
hello again,
I wasn’t clear on what Mr. Archer meant; he seemed to want to know about Gurdjieff,

303vegas wrote: I’ve never read anything by Gurdjieff but now my curiosity has been piqued

, but then on his next post, gave us a link to Gudjieff’s main book, called, Beelzebub’s Tales To His Grandson. He did say

303vegas wrote:so I’ll endeavour to give him a try!

, so maybe he wanted to show us that he had found the book.
If he is trying to read BTTG now, I say, good luck to him!! It is often easier to read after being prepared for it, and of course, it doesn’t work as well if you aren’t prepared in some way for the material. Example: preparation necessary to read, Synergetics I & II, Principia Mathematica, etc. You will be defeated by these books if you’re not ready for it. So, for D. Archer, he should really read, say, In Search Of The Miraculous, Fragments Of A Lost Teaching, by P.D. Ouspensky, to get ready for it; and also, Ouspensky’s The Possible Psychology Of Man’s Evolution. You’ll note, that Mr. Ouspensky was a well-respected Mathematician.
Feel free to ask any questions.
Jone Dae

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Re: G. I. Gurdjieff, a man ahead of his time

Postby 303vegas » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:03 am
I think you’ve gotten us mixed up there.
love from lancashire!

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Re: G. I. Gurdjieff, a man ahead of his time

Postby jone dae » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:27 pm
To 303Vegas,
I’m sorry? How did I mix you up?
Jone

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